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Question about licenses.
Posted: 06 Jun 07 1:47 PM
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Hello,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a question about obtaining licenses for older versions of SLX. We are currently using Version 5.2.4 and we have used up all the licenses that we have. We are unable to purchase from Sage any more licenses for that version. Upgrading is currently not an option due to the extensive customization (it is something we are working on for the future) and we need new licenses immediately. Does anyone have any suggestions on what can be done? Can we purchase licenses from other companies using an older version? If I run more than one instance of SLX using the same username and password, does that count as more than one license used? Any and all comments are appreciated.
Thank you.
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 07 Jun 07 7:44 AM
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Hard Cold Legal fact: The Client does not OWN the software.. Sage does.. it's in the legal agree ment.
I suggest that if you do not want to get into legal hot water (you and your copany) you try to work out a deal THRU sage as the "broker". To do so on your own could find you and your company in court!
The Licenses are NOT something a client can LEGALLY sell to another client since they are BOUND by the legal agreements they signed.
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rjl |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 3:23 AM
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Calm down RJ - it's not that serious (well, the license agreement is, but that's not the issue).
It's emminently possible for Sage US to sell 5.2 licenses - they didn't lose the code generator. We all know why they stopped supporting it and that's fine. However, to not sell additional licenses is just spiteful - assuming the customer has already accepted the fact it's dead in the water when it comes to support etc. However, if they are still paying maintenance - and have indicated to Sage that they are planning on upgrading then, in the short term, Sage should sell the licenses. I suggest the client goes back to Sage with this reasoned argument and see where they get to. I do agree, however, that they should not attempt to beg/borrow/steal licenses from anywhere else. |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 6:59 AM
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Mike,
First of all, in NA this info has been widely distributed (cut-off of pre v6.2 licenses) for some time. The warnings that something like this was going to happen started a few years ago. I do not know about Europe (or other parts of the world) but direct emails were sent to the primary contact(s) in the entire customer NA base.
General opinion.... in 99% of these types of cases the big issue is comunication:
A - Failure of the BP to communicate w/the appropriate people at te client site on a regular and timely basis.
B - Roll-over of people at the client site resulting in primary contact data not being up to date in Sage's database.
I highly agree that the only (legal) course of action for the customer is to work it out directly w/Sage.
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rjl |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 7:23 AM
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RJ - I'm not arguing about the facts surrounding the cut-off. I'm well aware of them and Sage have published that info over here too. We told out customers, informed them about the no licenses etc etc.
But, as you know, certain customers simply can't move that quickly - especially if they have a huge amount of customisations. Years is still a very short amount of time in consulting;programming time - especially if, perhaps, the BP is no longer on the scene or doesn't have the staff to cope with the upgrade or, like you say, turnover of staff at the customer themselves.
It's a problem that's very easily resolved short-term. And it can be done... |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 4:13 PM
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Refusing to let customers buy licenses of ANY older version is downright dumb in my opinion. As you say, Mike, there is no technical reason not to generate 5.2 licenses for folks tha want to hand Sage money. If the customer is happy with what they have then let them be.
Timmus |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 4:19 PM
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| If the customer informs Sage that they do not require support on the older product then Sage is more likely to provide the licenses. |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 08 Jun 07 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Timmus Agersea
Refusing to let customers buy licenses of ANY older version is downright dumb in my opinion. As you say, Mike, there is no technical reason not to generate 5.2 licenses for folks tha want to hand Sage money. If the customer is happy with what they have then let them be.
Timmus |
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Not possible since there were some third party pieces involved (especially in v6.0 and v6.1) that have expired.
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rjl |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 11:25 AM
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With all due respect, I disagree , RJL. If they stay with 5.2 (or any earlier version) a 3rd party integration may stop working. Actually I retract: why would a 3rd party app stop working if they did not upgrade the 3rd party app? If 3rd party app version x works with SalesLogix 5.2 and they dont upgrade either application both should continue to work. I know its not a perfect world and things like the GMT updates from Microsoft can change the landscape. But the customer should be able to choose to stay with 5.2 and lose the 3rd party app (worse case) versus being forced to upgrade everytime Sage comes out with a new version. This is holding customers hostage.
Customers should be INTICED to upgrade such as "if you upgrade to 7.2 you get all these great benefits and they outweigh the cost of upgrading". If the benefits dont outweigh the costs for a customer then they should be empowered to say "no thank you" and "please take my money for some more licenses".
Timmus |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 11:46 AM
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I'm talking about 3rd party technology that Sage/SalesLogix had (key word is had) licensed in the past where there was a "per end user" or "per end user site" license that Sage/SalesLogix no longer has... This was discussed in several partner webinars and partner "flash" newsletters before the respective product was retired...
Sure there needs to be some good (sales) programs for upgrading.. but remember there ar ea lot of folks out there that have been paying their maintence and support for years .. over various versions/releases.. and offering a "cut-rate" deal to those who have not.. well.. you can get a lot of folks very "ticked off".
I really have to place alot of "blame" on partners that do "hit-and-run" selling and have left clients out to dry... The have told the clients part of teh story.. not the whole truth. The have led the clients to believe that they can run forever on "version x".. and you and I know that is not true for technical reasons... and others... equipment and software is inconstant change..
Bottom Line.. There's really nothing you or I can do about what Sage does or does not do about their licenses.. They own the software.. they license it how they see fit.. They can stop selling a particular version/license if they want...
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rjl
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 12:09 PM
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I am requesting change, RJL. Please don't tell me that there is nothing we can do about it. I am doing something about it. I am voicing my opinion in this public forum.
You are one of the most vocal business partners and you are constantly asking Sage to change things. I do not know why you are taking the status quo stance on this issue. Is it because you didnt gripe about it first? 
Timmus |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 12:12 PM
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Oh and by the way, there is definitely something customers can do about it - they cant tell Sage to stuff it and they can buy some other software. Sage needs to stop singing the same tune that most software companies have been singing all along. Its time to improve and surpass the competition. This can be done by many more means than simply changing the software.
Timmus |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 7:37 PM
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I Agree.. I do speak out about issues that need to get some air time....
However, I did not say that I was not (or did not) try to do something (about the "problem") before teh "drop dead dates" happened... It's just that I did not go to a public forum to do it...... nuff said...
Yes, the consumer can always vote w/their checkbook... it's a thing that we all do .. right?
In the particular case that drove this thread the client needs to have a serious talk w/the "right folks" and also to develop a committed plan to get themselves to a supported version (probably v7.2) asap. I KNOW the Sage folks WILL listen and do what they can to help them out IF the client is serious about getting the a fully supported version.
In fact, if the particular client will call me and discuss it I will go to bat for them. Their BP should have done so..
In general.. yes, Sage NEEDS to "get with the program" and get some GOOD deals going. Solid Sage deals.. not "cut-throat" pricing deals (that "some" Bp's are doing.. which is a dis-servive to teh entire community)
You know I always tell clients that if their BP is not doing their job.. FIRE THEM and get a new BP!
.. Sorry if I got a bit "huffy"... You know that at the end of the day.. it's the End Client that counts.. they pay all of our bills 
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rjl +1 508.809.9513 (o) |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 7:41 PM
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I think the driving factor on the 5.2 side was the OEM SQL license from Microsoft, and the end of that relationship.
I have heard rumblings that there may be a window of opportunity opening up to purchase "vintage" licenses in the next 30 days, but I don't know if it goes back to 5.2. It may only apply to the 6.x versions.
ws |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 09 Jun 07 9:55 PM
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Walt.. I believe it will be 5.2 (if they do it) and they can exclude the SQL license if they want to since clients can purchase it directly.
6.0 and 6.1 use licensed technology in the "provider" that Sage no longer OEM's.
I'd expect the deal would involve a "current" maintenance agreement at the "new" rates along with a plan to upgrade to 7.2 (or something like it..).
This is something that I'd back..
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rjl |
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Re: Question about licenses.
Posted: 11 Jun 07 10:20 AM
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Great discussion 
I do agree about the stuff that was OEM'ed for the provider in 6.0 and 6.1 making it impossible for Sage to sell new installs for those versions, but would that really apply for selling additional user-licenses for existing installs? Wouldn't those components have been licensed with the original software installation? I'm not sure I know the answer to that question.
My guess (and this is only a guess) is that Sage doesn't want to sell the licenses anymore because that means, or even implies, that they have to support it. If that's the only reason why, then going to bat with Sage could get some results (or licenses). If it is a matter of a legal issue where the cannot sell it because they no longer license the components it uses then that is a different issue (and one that won't likely yield results by causing a stink anyway)
-Ryan |
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